With all the talk about cutting the DoD budget in 2012, it’s surprising that we haven’t heard anything official about the Pentagon cutting back on military tuition assistance. But, the fact is there will be cuts, the writing is on the wall.
This week the Chief of Continuing Education Programs, Carolyn Baker, told the attendees at the Council of College and Military Educators annual conference that the DoD spent $542 million on tuition assistance in 2010 – $24 million more than 2009. Baker pointed out that increased demand and the growing cost of college tuition are putting a financial strain on the DoD budget. “The current program growth is unsustainable,” said Baker. She also told the CCME audience that the previously promised increase in TA payment rates will not happen.
The looming budget cuts are like the 800 pound gorilla in the room; everyone knows it’s there, but no one wants to directly acknowledge it. When asked, other DoD education leaders confirmed that there will be reductions or added usage restrictions which will impact the military tuition assistance programs. But none of them were able or willing to say how much or when the cuts would go into effect.
There is one exception. According to the Chief of Coast Guard Education and Professional Development, James Lis, the Coast Guard is not likely to see major tuition assistance changes in the near future.
Learn more about the current tuition assistance programs for each service branch.
That's right first to go educating the enlisted! Let the class wars begin.
What, just because they will be smarter than everyone higher ranking than them because the officers were too lazy to go and get a real job.
For your information, TA is not only for enlisted personnel. Officers also utilize TA so this cut would affect both enlisted and officer alike.
The reality is that the 'sacred cows" we have held so dear are going to slaughter, like it or not. Capt C is correct in his statement as well, this will affect all ranks, and a draft would certainly not fix anything either.
This is not an isolated incident or period in our history.
Think of it this way, if you are 50K in debt do you go and spend more money to fix the problem, no you cut back your spending and learn to make your money go further. But as so many people in this country do they spend like there is no tomorrow. Look at your platoons next time you come back form a deployment, ask how many of them took advantage of the TSP, paid off debt, or even saved money at all? This is does not just apply to single soldiers either, married are just as bad. Out of a 30 man infantry platoon about 28% on average come back from deployment broke, yes broke!!
We need to place emphasis on not just EO, POSH… but fiscal responsibility as well, I have sent many soldiers to the ACS budgeting class and with positive results. One of my former soldiers is now buying the house of his dreams because he and his wife work together on a budget and stick to it. The idea of spending more when you get a raise is not healthy at all and it only leads to more debt.
So strap yourself in this ride is going to get rougher before it gets better.
I would observe the majority of people that this program was intended for is enlisted men and women. I don't exactly see officers clamoring for this program, when they have such posh programs like the GEV which pays for a graduate education.
To even think about cutting education TA is RIDICULOUS!! A huge portion of the enlisted join for to get help paying for their education.
That would be called entitlements which is destroying the country. Lets make sure we strive to be the best soldier we can first.
So what your saying is continuing your education dosn't make you a better soldier? When a soldier leaves the military is there is a huge job demand for door kickers, patrols, and gunners? Or are you just saying that every enlisted soldier should serve for your Country then work at McDonalds?
It's too the point now where we have to many in the service. Now members are happy if they get to re-enlist. No longer can someone join and expect to do 20….the TA is looked at as more of a bonus thing than a recruiting tool now.
AND 90% DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT TA IS THERE, THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE EDUCATION AFTER THEY GET OUT JUDY. NOT WHILE THEIR IN. THERE IS ONLY ONE SERVICE RIGHT NOW THAT PUSHES EVERYONE TO HAVE A DEGREE BEFORE GETTING OUT AND THAT IS THE MARINE CORPS WHO BY THE WAY ARE SOME OF THE BIGGEST SPENDERS OF WASTE. TA, BONUS'S JUST FOR STAYING! BECAUSE THEY CAN OR CAN'T GET ENOUGH QUALITIFIED APP'S. GET A LIFE YOUNG LADY. I LIVE IN THIS WORLD EVERYDAY AND I SEE SOME MAJOR ABUSES TO THE TA WORLD. IT NEEDS TO BE REDUCED ASAP
The Brass don't care how important T/A is to the enlisted troops, they only care about cutting the budget.
What I don't think is fair is people come in and fill all the squares to get ahead and are doing well and then sudden the Air Force needs to buy new equipment, so to get the money, they cut troops who have been in for a while. That is wrong but remember, Airman come first, yeah B.S.
Every enlisted gets the GI Bill with BAH PAID for now. When I came in that wasn't the case, Hell, now they don't even have to pay for it like we did. Why should we be entitled to TA for a free degree and then another through GI BIll with our rent paid for? Ive dont 16 years and 5 deployments and I dont believe that.
S/F
You are right Shaun. I sent a letter to my congressman and senator about the same issue recently. Don't stop there….let's put all these recruiting offices in federal buildings. reserve centers or bases. Next step, put all the congressman and senators in federal buidlings in their communities. We will save millions! I want to reach through the TV and slap every elected official who starts his/her whining with "that's such a small percentage" BS! Hey einstien it's all small, but when every small piece is combined, we save tons.
I am so sick and tired of hearing about budget cuts. If you want to trim the budget, start with recruiting for all branches across the board. The U.S. Government pays rent to building owners and malls for these facilities. When I recruiting for the Marine Corps, I had a copy of the lease. My office alone cost $3000 a month and that office hadn't moved from that location in 20 years!! Not to mention, the Army and Navy were also located in this building as well. I can't even phathom how much the owner of the building had made off the Federal Government over that 20 year span. Imagine if the government had purchased a building. I can guarantee you it would cost less than $3000 a month!! So, if anyone with some clout reads this, don't take my education money away, take rent away from landlords and buy something!!!!
I agree with you one hundred percent. I am a retired veteran who was using my education benefits to make it month to month after losing my job over a year and a half ago. This is because we are in a War with the position of the President of the United States and some of the Republicans and tea party will do whatever it takes to make things bad enough, so President Obama will not complete a second term. Hold on, you haven't seen anything yet.
There are ways to use your time a little more wisely to go to school no what what your mos is. Dont be ignorent about the other jobs that support you because without that support your nothing. Mabye because your probably E-3, or below, your inclined to make random condesending comments but honsetly till your an NCO you dont rate much anyway.
There are alot of NCO's that are worth spit also. Why don't you quit your whining about the junior enlisted and start whining about the NCO's that sit around with their thumbs up their butt. You are probably one of those!
Sorry Matt, but you would benefit from some additional education; your grammar and spelling are a mess. Take advantage of the educational benefits offered to you so that you will be able to write a decent resume.
I agree with the two about this boy Matt. I can’t tell you how many “NCOs” that are just plain out worthless. Trying to just flex those stripes rather than taking care of the airman. What’s even worse is rather than the NCOs themselves getting themselves and education to become successful members of society they would rather see which one of them can stick their heads further up that dark brown!
I always say …What is low man on the totum pole? But the foundation for the rest of the pole. F***with the foundation and your pole falls.
Now if you always think you are better then them, that just means your more ignorant. Your job is to lead by example, train and mentor. By your comment, be glad you dont work for me.
Not everyone has the privilege of sitting on an ac room even on deployment, regardless of how important support is for infantry you dont go out on patrols every four hours nor stand post. And dont you dare to compare a coward POG NCO with an infantry E-3 or even an infantry NCO. I am going to guess you are a POG NCO or SNCO who thinks he rates something for having a low cutting score or easy promotion path but the truth is that you dont rate a damn thing either because you are nothing but a bench warmer.
This is only the beginning. Vets have always gotten the raw end of the deal. Yes we have mediocre healthcare,and a paycheck If you retire,or are disabled. It’s sickening to see the way our country is headed, and that’s right down the toilet. This is not the USA I fought for!
Amen brother
Years ago they promised military members this benefit and that perk but now years later, oh we need to cut the benefit or perk you have gotten used to.
To go back on what was promised is UnAmerican. Why are the Generals and top civilians in DOD fighting for us? Why becasue there promotions and bonuses rely on cutting money from Vets and active duty people like cuts in T/A.
I retired from the Air Force and I used to tell people to join all the time but I don't anymore becasue of the way the active duty is shabbily treated.
i completely feel for u and all who put their lives in harms way for a nation who is supposed to stand back by our militaries side and am so sickened by military cut offs as well being an air force wife im terrified of my families future
True, remember when to make E7 they wanted an AA degree ?, ludacrist if you were at see workin 14 hour days ! What were they thinking !
You mean " if you were at SEA."
The military needs educated soldiers.
Sorry Dan, that was aimed at Derek. Guess I clicked the wrong reply button. What do you want? I'm a junior enlisted Army vet. FA to boot! If we can't laugh at ourselves…
Allow me to help you out there: "True. Remember when an associate's degree was required to make E-7? [We're expected to do this while] we're at sea working fourteen hour days‽ Ludicrous! What were they thinking‽" I'm associated with a lot of highly politically active liberals, who think that servicemembers' IQ's are no higher than their ASVAB scores. No offence Brother Vet, but writing like that does nothing to help fight this stigma. This public service announcement was sponsered by my Ch. 33 GI Bill education…
As a retired 1SG in Army Recruiting, I say without reservations, lets go back to the draft. you do not have to draft only the less educated, but make it more lucrative for the volunteer, but have less recruiting offices, less recruiters with extra allowances and recruiting pay etc. That saves money and then draft only when the numbers dictate.Enter text right here!
yes, because a draft did so much for our army in Vietnam, Not sure what your reasoning is, but get fucking real. It took the army until Desert storm to recover from the draft and Vietnam. AN army filled with malcontents and ne'er do wells is not an army I'd want to be in. Outside of logic, This country will not stand for a draft for anything short of WW III. Nor should they have to
You are way out of line, I joined in 1973 the draft was over then my number was 8. It was around 1976/78 that most of the Draftees were pushed out. I was so glad, 99% didn't work and gave the new VOLAR Army guys a hard time. Many were drug users and drunks; I went to Germany and reported to my Battery to an officer with a flower in his shirt and a torn short sleeve shirt with a peace sign on the pocket, we were guarding Special Weapons at the time. In our Launcher area the Hash smoke would make you higher then a kite. I was one that stayed and did 25 years, I saw the Army grow and become a great place to be and a good paying job. Thanks to Reagan and Bushes. I tried to use TA but never had the time do to, 18 Deployments and when I retired I had to work and couldn’t use my GI Bill, I lost 5 years of college
You are absolutely correct. There is no way a REAL retired 1SG would ever think that bringing back the draft was a good idea.
There's no need for a draft. The services are overmanned. Servicemembers are no longer competing for advancement, they're competing to re-enlist.
As a retired SCPO, who joined back in the 70's, go back to the draft! The only thing most of the recuriter where doing back then was signing folks up before they got picked to go in to a service that they didn't want to go. If is more cost savings, then you stop trying to meet quotes, waste money on gas, food etc to keep these volunteers on the hook until they actually join! I am with Brother
AMEN Top!! As a retiree myself from the MP Corps, I couldn't agree more. Frankly, our "great society" called America, needs our armed forces more than ever. No other mechanism we have can mold the next generation(s) of young people away from "the world owes me because I'm special" mentality. We're broke, Top! But, not without hope!!
Go Larry D!
The military needs educated soldiers! This helps them to achieve that. Education is required for rank. There are so many other areas that could be cut other than their benefits. Overall budgets for units are typically excessive. I recall being told to expend all ammunition for fear that if it was returned that the battalion would be short changed the following year. This happens in many areas. Units will have excess and are not frugile with the budgets or supplies.
As for the comment above, ALL soldiers deserve their benefits. You had a choice as to what direction to go and if you chose Infantry that is on you. We are all here to support each other. If it wasn't for that Finance soldier you would not even get paid.
Agreed Jen, I heard it constantly while I was in the Navy: "make sure it gets spent whether you need it right now or not or we won't get the same budget for next year".
I had the same in the Marines. Spend it or lose it. My beautiful country I fought for is slowly being taken over my whimps and pencil pushers. It won’t be long and we will be the 3rd world country.
Having been a successful Army recruiter for not one second longer than I was "asked" to stay, I can tell you that "choosing" combat arms MOS's is kind of like becoming a recruiter. The choice given those with low qualification scores is so much smaller than that offered "more qualified" applicants that the concept of equal choice and equal opportunity with regard to military compensation and entitlement should be examined. Combat arms and even many combat support roles left little chance for enlisted to utilize such wildly advertised benefits back in my day (retired after 25 in 2006). It is a fact of military life that the "Finance soldier" to whom you refer has so much more realistic opportunity to attend college while on active duty than their Infantry counterparts. The experience is so different as to make an apples to oranges comparison isn't even fair; you'd have to consider comparisons such as apples to aviation fuel to even get into the same ballpark or universe, for that matter!
Before anyone jumps me for being a grunt, I NEVER served a day in any other field than enlisted Army medicine, and recruiter as briefly as possible! I sat on the fence. I was in one of those jobs that can be found as close or far from the front line or combat, to use a more accurate identifier of modern conflict geography. To put it in terms some old-timers can understand I was definitely an MTOE, and not TDA, soldier. I spent 80% of my career in assignments OTHER than a hospital. I know what grunts do, or at least did, because I spent a lot of time with them. I doubt things have changed significantly in only five years.
Some of these issues are mitigated by other facts of military life. Grunts DO get promoted WAY FASTER than their support and service support comrades. They do have a decidedly easier non-field schedule than the rest of us enjoyed and they usually get most of the glory – and the girls! – with their flashy ribbons, badges, cords, and all sorts of other trophies, but that is small compensation compared to what most of the rest of us take from service. They cannot easily apply or transfer the vast majority of their military skills to post-military jobs, and they certainly DIDN'T have as much time to go to school while they were active. Their only alternative is to rely on after-service programs to gain marketable skills, only they have no means of support nearly as viable as the soldier who was able to go to school for free while collecting an active-duty paycheck.
I agree that all soldiers deserve their benefits. I certainly know I earned mine several times over! But don't try to play off enlisted education benefits as if they were truly equal opportunity. They aren't!
That's right, infantry or no infantry does not make you an illiterate. The people making the rules are all educated and have college degrees. You choose the path of illiteracy and that could be changed. Some using that as an excuse.
Impeach Osama from office and that will save this country from further discrace and dictatorship. What have we fought all across the world only to come back to? Dictators and racists who thrive on their own ignorance. You take away my TA and other benefits i fought for me and my family and you will lose many more true patriots.
You call yourself "Patriot" but patriots believe in the Constitution of this country. The President was elected by a majority of Americans. Another thing so called Patriot, who do you think is more likely to reduce government programs, the Democrats who overwhelmingly supported the Post 9/11 GI Bill (Obama voted for it when he was in the Senate and McCain voted against it) or the Republicans who can't wait to reduce government until everything is contracted out to substandard unaccountable corporations who can buy influence with your elected politician? By your writing above I can tell you are in need of all the TA you can get so take a minute, turn down the Rush and tell me who signed the first GI Bill? Answer – Roosevelt (Dem). Who crushed the Bonus Army when they came to DC to collect the money promised them following WWI? Hoover (Rep). Who started the High Three retirement and the Redux? First Bush (Rep). Who got rid of Redux? Clinton (Dem).
Too often in an effort to satisfy our personal biases and to find blame in our own condition we advocate, pontificate and vote against our own self interest. Try to think beyond your prejudice and look at the facts. You may become less of an angry person. I know you will be less ignorant, and maybe you will think twice about casting a vote against yourself.
Ret. Sgt Maj,
For your information, there still is a REDUX retirement plan
You are entirely on point Retired Sgt Maj with your comments (except for the REDUX). A point I’d like to add is that the changes we currently see in the GI bill was proposed before when the Republicans had control of the House and the Senate, and it was shot down. People, military members especially, need to stop listening to the propaganda and research for themselves what political party actually supports their cause.
I totally agree with everything you wrote. I live in Tennessee and this State is overwhelmingly Republican and it is crazy because people here vote against their own interest every election. They vote as their parent and grandparent did and they don't look at the facts. Their are so many ignorant people in the US that vote in these radical Republicans and complain about what they loose in the process by blaming it the wrong politicians. We all need to get out and try and educate ignorant people like this before the next election. I am loosing faith in the intelligence of people in this country.
It is sad to think I lost my husband and my children s father to lung problems from Agent Orange and didn't get a dime to help raise my kids. They have a wonderful stepfather who is 100% disabled Vet who has to fight the VA to get any kind of help. All of this to give American all the freedoms they have and they squander away they power listening to idiots like Rush, who are laughing all the way to the bank at their expense.
Ex-President Bush and his administration put this country in this mess, not the current administration. You are not a patriot if you do not know what you are talking about.
With all the misspelled words and grammer errors in your post, I don't think you're ready for college anyway.
By racist, you mean yourself? Right!
Without the GI bill benefits in the 70′s, I could not have afforded college and certainly would not be finishing my career as CEO/Founder of a $40M company. The education benefits received did a lot to remove the bitterness of being drafted. In my case and many like mine, the GI Bill paid off in spades for many folks other than our family-with jobs and increased taxes and services provided. Never asked for a handout–only fair treatment following substantial sacrifice.
Train and Hire the Vet!
Good that you got yours! I'm stil trying to get mine! I received my bachelors and MBA out of my own pocket. I'm still due my 45 months of educational bennies. I retired Dec 1, 1987 and had applied for them. Have't gotten a response concerning why! For over 20 years? I was persuaded at education offices at every duty assignment to "wait until you retire to use them"! Right!!! Even a congressman hasn't helped. You're one lucky guy! If I stopped fighting, they'd just shove me off in a corner somewhere; which, as I recall, they've already done! it's ridiculous!
Very good points, Doug! I especially like your closing statement. That sums up my feelings regarding ALL of the benefits service personnel have, do, and will receive IN DIRECT COMPENSATION for sacrifices so dear not many in the private sector can imagine, let alone identify. This is a great opening for me to spout one of my greatest complaints with those who feel benefits should be reduced: BENEFITS = PAY; they aren't some "freeby" tacked on as the "thanks of a grateful nation" many civilians think of them as. They are bargaining chips put on the table SPECIFICALLY to entice young men and women to serve our nation. They are contractual elements used to sway people from thinking about the potential for either friendly or enemy ordinance to find them. It's the RISK for which we all get paid, and we receive far less pay than our civilian counterparts the entire time we serve.
And most, if not all, of those benefits are not like cash. You can't use the "value" any other way than that specifically outlined by law. On top of that, many of the benefits come to you on sort of a sweepstakes or lottery basis. You only get the benefit if you're unfortunate enough to need it, such as "free" medical care AFTER you've sustained the injuries or illnesses that "qualify" you for such lavish extravagance!!! They pay to move you and your family, but make you jump all over the globe with great regularity! You get combat pay, but have to be in combat to get it! Does anyone out there with a brain need any more examples, or have I made it abundantly clear that nothing Uncle Sam provides us is free? It is all very much QUID PRO QUO; we earned it just as certainly as we earned the "free" chow they slapped on our plates in the field mess, that is, if we were lucky enough to have a field dining facility!!!!!
To any civilians out there who think we're getting over with all these great bennies? Don't complain – JOIN if you wish to take advantage of the deal. And to any of you who feel they do not wish to participate OR "pay" for it, I suggest you renounce your citizenship and go elsewhere; just forfeit all of the wealth that came to you through the country and its freedom soldiers paid with their lives and/or livelihoods for you to enjoy.
Hey Doug, great to hear that the 70's GI Bill worked for you, and your company. How about hiring a 30 year retired NAVY Senior Chief (E-8), educated and ready to work hard.
I don't undertand cut soldiers from the only thing they know : the military and then cut their tuition…if you have to much personnel stop hiring..yes why are the recruiting office still opened? and why cut education a main economic factor in a country. Education and work is what gets countries out of the rut.
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, BUT CONGRESS IS ALWAY LOOKING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION FOR BUDGET CUTS!! MAYBE IF THE LOOK AT THEIR OWN BUDGET THAT'S SOMETHING YOU NEVER REALLY HEAR!!
Its bs them thinkin bout cuttin ta .. honestly 4500 a fy isn’t even enough .. they should raise the amount if anything. They complain bout how much they spend, then why even let us use it
Cut DOD's contract expenditures to the companies costing tax payers the most in the Federal Budget. We owe the soldier educational expenses it was past of the cost of doing business, now we cannot say we don't have enough money to go around. Build one less ship, submarine, bomber, fighter aircraft, tank, personnel carrier, rocket & satellite, and stop paying automatic Annual raises to the House & Senate Members. Have we all gone mad!
I agree Casey, $4500 a year is not enough. Most of us on Active duty have to take online classes because of our everchanging work schedule and travel requirements. The colleges that offer online classes and solicit as military friendly jack their prices up to make sure they get the full amount possible out of our TA every year. Being enrolled online full time last year while Active I exceeded the TA and had to apply for the Federal Aid Pell Grant. I went through full TA and FAFSA in one school year. There is no way I could afford to pay tuition on my own, yet my civilian education is considered every time I am up for promotion and in consideration of my career and future. Most of the reason I initially joined the military was for career stability and education opportunities. I would think those of us fighting to protect our country should be the last ones they take away from.
What amazes me is that we spend 25 billion yearly in FOREIGN AID, yet neglect to keep the promises made to our citizens and warfighters.
Sir,
You are right on point. We should take the log out of our eye before worring about the speck in other people eyes.
Amen to that!!!
Honestly, I can't believe that figure to be accurate. Without having the luxury of an official accounting I must insist I would guess that's an extremely low estimate of what the U.S. spends on foreign aid, not to mention all of the billions funneled overseas through private and/or charitable U.S. organizations. That doesn't even begin to consider all of the U.S. resources being effectively donated to foreigners in the form of millions of illegal aliens who worm their way into our land by any means possible. That may as well be considered foreign aid! In my opinion, we should not start sending any resources overseas until not one U.S. citizen was hungry, homeless, or in need.
I agree that all colleges need to reduce the tuition costs to no less than $200 per semester hour, both graduate/undergraduate. This action would result in millions of dollars in savings. The idea to move all recruiters on base is great.
Yes, reduce the tuition costs for MILITARY ONLY. That way the schools are not losing so much money. Basically give the gov’t a premium price for tuition.
Getting colleges to reduce tuition for military is a genious idea!! The cost for graduate level education far exceeds the tuition we are allotted annually. And since we work FOR this country, you think the least they could do is help in our goal of furthering our education.
What the Big Government does not realize is that a lot of Warfighters use the service as a stepping stone into life, and I'm not saying that they joined for the College money. Warfighters should feel like that if they felt the need to want to continue their education while serving funding should be there for them to be able to accomplish that mission. For them to say that it was huge spike in 2010 for TA like it was a bad thing is wrong. Those Warfighters should be applauded and afforded every opportunity they need to reach their goals in life.
And for the Warfighter who said that he was never afforded the opportunity to complete college is B.S., I know many of my battles who are 11B/Infantry man who got degrees while on active duty. So don't use laziness or bad time management as an excuse.
A great disparity exists between availability of education benefits while on active duty between combat arms and combat support and combat service support personnel. To discount this fact of life by simply racking it up to laziness or poor time management is ridiculous. I know enlisted combat arms soldiers who earned a degree while on active duty, but they were the exception as opposed to the rule compared to the percentage of support or service support soldiers afforded more time and opportunities to attend college.
Technology and the number of institutions offering online courses and entire degree programs has leveled the playing field somewhat from days gone by. Having served in the Army Medical Corps my entire career, I got to see both sides of the coin. I was assigned to far more combat units by my own choice than not, so I had the opportunity to experience both flavors up close and personal.
While true that most persons can do whatever they honestly put their heart, mind, and body to, that does not equate to having the same availability or opportunity. I applaud anyone who earns a degree while serving our country, but recognize some have to work harder to achieve the same result and some will never have the opportunity no matter how hard they work or how well they manage their time.
Rob,
many 11B's who do not have their degrees are probably the ones that have been back and forth between Iraq and Afghanistan. These Soldiers are often judged the same as the 11B's who sit stateside and run ranges and otherwise hideout. If they cut TA, then they need to cut the numbers in ROTC and West Point Also.
Bob, I totally agree with you. These soldiers are lazy and lack ambition to move ahead in life. They can only achieve when they have superiors standing over them. Motivate yourselves infantry men. Make the sacrifice to achieve an education. STOP MAKING EXCUSES!!!!!
you are right …why don't we use our national guard and reserve facilities to recruit?????????????
Because in this day of age. Military matters are over seen by politicians you have back channel ties to the corporations getting paid. Either they have stock or “the corporation make a BIG contribution” to the particular political party. Backwater during the Bush JR’s day donated over $200,000 to the republican part.
youre a douche. get a clue buddy. 200k is chump change compared to what the big boys put into politics. i was active duty, then got out and have been on the contracting side of things, and am now back active…
you seem like one of those cheney/KBR or whoever else the flavor of the day conspiracy theorists – the truth is that there is no difference between parties anymore, and if the conspiracy is evident to folks like you, there really is nothing there. the true conspiracies happen without anyone knowing or seeing what is happening!
I like the comment about putting all congressmen and senators in federal buildings in their area.
I don't think it's so ridiculous, many of the hard working service members such as deployed infantry, the ones who probably deserve it the most, do not even get the chance to use TA. If you joined the military to go to school then get out and use this new amazing GI bill that will even cover BAH.
The point is the military's pay and benefits shoould not be touched. Without the military there wouldn't be any budget cuts, because there wouldn't be a country to budget for!
John your an idiot. I know plenty of infantry (rangers) more than your punk ass can ever do go on and get degrees. So before you start running your suck hole get your facts straight.
I've used 16k in TA to date. My school purposely charges 1K per semester. They must be making a killing off the military. If the cost of tuition wasn't so high. Another thing, this post 9/11 GI bill won't be around long either, they already have reduced the benefits.
They didn't reduce the benefits. They raised in some area's, and lowered in others. I happen to be in the group that got completely dicked, but that doesn't mean the post 9/11 gi bill is going anywhere, cuz it's not.
All they did with the Post 9/11 Gibill was keep people from abusing it and getting a free check with it, there were a lot of people who were taking just enough BS classes to be half time to breeze buy just to get the BAH check….. That is not what the program is for. It is for getting an education, doing better, improving your skills, raising yourself up in the world …… not being a PIMPLE ON THE BUTT OF HUMANITY ! lets all grow up and use our brains here, that is what the GiBill is for.
No, they made it close to impossible to get an education now and the full benefits. I take two courses, one online and one face to face and I work full time. It's killer to work full time and continue education and two classes is about the limit anyone should take working full time. Now, in order to the the full BAH you have to take 4 classes? That's impossible to do when working full time. That is going to demotivate people to finish their education and save the government money. That's the only reason for this to save the government money. They don't care about anything else.
I'm pretty sure the BAH is supposed to compensate you for your reduced availability to work. However, I'm carrying three classes, my BAH is $1701 for 3-4 classes, at least on campus, and I'd be living on store brand mac n cheese if my wife wasn't able to work full time. Her pay plus my BAH and 20% disability rating, brings us in around 40k a year. That's shit in NJ, especially with a kid. Everything we get as vets is better than nothing, but often not by much. Without this though, we'd be living in our car.
Here's an idea. How about trimming off the fat from lazy ass civilians, and managing waste better. Like printing books that no one will read. The government and military is slowly pushing all of the good service members out. We will soon be left with trash.
Here's a fact. There are plenty of lazy ass, pitiful soldiers. People entering the army with preexisting mental & medical problems, drug & alcohol problems, felons, people who could not hold a steady job as a civilian so they join the military out of desperation. You have no idea about waste of money, time, energy that is being spent on "bad soldiers" who should of never been hired into the military. So get off your "I'm so special high horse" just because you're a soldier. No one drafted your ignorant ass.
You're absolutely correct, kcr! But at least those worthless, desperate soldiers go through a qualification process that is LIGHT YEARS away from most civilian hiring actions, albeit much less stringent than it should be. And as for the percentage of worthless, by your standards, persons in the military, I would still venture a guess that a much higher percentage of persons who could not pass military muster exists within the civilian ranks. Just think, all of the people we reject REMAIN civilians and the rest choose NOT to serve their country! So no offense, personally, but for some reason I get the feeling you fall in the latter category. I invite you to get off of your "I-think-I'm-superior-to-military-members" high-horse.
I understand your thinking…But the military is not always interested in the ones that will stick around. I'm an E-4 on my first term and using TA to finish my BA. Thank Goodness for the TA because I'm in debt with student loans. The military is meant as a start in life for most not an end that be all. Do I want to do 20 years, yes i do. But I still need that education to increase in the rank but also to expand my mind and learn about other perspectives that exist.
YEAH AND UNFORTUNATELY THEY THINK THEY ARE SAVING MONEY BY GETTING RID OF THE QUALIFIED AND WELL EXPERIENCED MEMBERS, IT WILL COST THEM MORE MONEY IN THE LONG RUN IF THIS IS NOT THE CASE. I WAS ONE OF THE SERVICE MEMBERS EFFECTED BY THIS, BUT SINCE PEOPLE LIKE ME HAD TO BE PUSHED OUT THE NAVY STILL NEEDED PEOPLE TO PERFORM THESE SAME TASKS, SO GUESS WHAT THEY HIRE MORE CIVILIANS AND PAY FOR MORE MILITARY MEMBERS TO GO TO SCHOOL BECAUSE THEY STILL NEEDED INDIVIDUALS IN UNIFORM TO PERFORM CERTAIN DUTIES, SO IT REALLY SEEMS LIKE IT COSTS THE GOVERNMENT DOUBLE IF NOT MORE JUST TO GET RID OF ONE EXPERIENCED SERVICE MEMBER!!
if they got rid of half of those civilians they could afford to keep and raise TA
BS …they all joined for educational benefits or just to have a paycheck!
I'm sorry, Sir, but the paycheck really isn't worth signing years of my life away. Another thing: it doesn't matter why they join, what matters is… that's what they're entitled to. How do you think the gov't convinces people to join? I'll give you a few hints: it's not the pay, it's not for the medical/dental insurance, it's not for a higher quality of life, it's not so they'll have more time with their families, and it's definitely not to fight for those who choose not to (especially the ones who don't appreciate that fact).
stop whining….I got back from Vietnam…got great grades…had scholarships in undergrad and graduate schools and got a lacrosse scholarhsip after I got returned from 15 months in a recon platoon…..my pay in combat….$450 monthly…I managed to save enough for a new car when I got back…..everybody is taking a hit on balancing the budget…. millions for the f-35 engine….30,000 for a hyped up grenade laucher and $1000 per round….
I don't know how long you were in the military system but I am betting it's not as long as me.
From 16 until now I have been a dependent of a military member and a member myself in there too… What you are saying is bunk. We're not whining, dear, this is 2011 so your example isn't going to work for anyone now compared to then.
$450.00 in 1967 had the same buying power as $2,953.71 in 2010.
Annual inflation over this period was 4.47%. Do you know anyone making that kind of money at E-3 or E-4? Are you really saying that you didn't get any kind of help from anyone at all? Really? Then you were truly blessed to be ABLE to do that but a lot of returning kids from THESE wars can't do what you did and the military is ignoring a LOT of them, or has everyone forgotten the HORRENDOUS conditions in DC at Walter Reed???? I could have told you that when I had a baby there in 1986!!!!
If you're not in the military system now, you know not wherewith you speak.
While I have a great admiration for the Vietnam vets, and Vietnam vets got screwed by the government, the pay then was different as was the cost of living. I wouldnt say hype up weapons cause these are the same weapons that give the fighting Soldier an upper hand. If it wasn't for weapons programs, we would still be fighting with battle axes and spears. We need to cut all the foreign aid to start.
Good for you, but you're living in the stone age! I have a daughter who graduated with a 4.5 (AP Classes) from high school & applied for tons of scholarships. Guess what, she got "0" in scholarships because she is not a minority!! From when you went to school and now, things have changed! Now, if you are anything but white, there is a box to check and you WILL get accepted to the college of your dreams and you WILL at least qualify for scholarships. If you are white, you MAY or MAY not get accepted to most colleges, and you don't qualify for 90% or more of the scholarships available. That isn't my opinion, that's a fact – look it up! I have a 2nd one looking at colleges now and experiencing the same thing.
My husband was in around the same time you were and received some amazing breaks going from enlisted to US Naval Academy. We are very thankful for those opportunities. Because he retired two years too early, we were not able to transfer the Post 911 Bill to our children! Fortunately we were able to qualify for tuition assistance in CA!
I totally agree that we need to seriously look at other cuts in our government before we touch the Education Benefits or any other Benefits of our military, more so for the veterans than dependents. Glad we have the ones I can use for my kids, but I'm much more concerned about the benefits for the guys who serve!!!
Its funny because they want to cut budget but people in the navy who try to use the early out program get denied early out and people who want to stay in get denied being able to stay in. It is honestly one of the worst systems out there. If they really wanted to cut budgets they would allow people who are past there first enlistment who had never received a bonus, yet working on a two year extension to get out if they want to. I have been in for 4.5 years and request a year early out but had got denied and I am now forced to stay in yet I know numerous people at my command who want to stay in but are being forced out. They need to forget tuition assistance and start working with manning first off. TA is a benefit and people who serve deserve it. They could easily make up the budget cuts if they allowed people to get out who want to get out.
I never understood that neither. Why can't they let go of the people who wants to get out, and keep the people who wants to stay in?
That's the most absurd post I've ever read. What on God's green earth does tuition assistance have to do with letting you get out of your commitment to the military early? Wow…
I'm sorry to say I agree this is an absurd forum in which to be expressing this opinion, but feel compelled to speak to some of the issues you raise. The reason they don't let soldiers get out when they feel like doing so is simple: there would not have been enough American volunteers to fight ANY of the wars we've had were that the case. Folks and governments learned that a long time ago; that's why America has never allowed soldiers to leave ahead of their commitment as long as they still had value to offer and the United States had need all the way back to our very first conflict, the Revolutionary War.
I saw the same thing every time conflict loomed or had actually arrived throughout my 25-year career, far more people wanted out than wanted to enlist or reenlist. They go AWOL, move to Canada or somewhere else abroad, or get their family to pull the right strings should they be so lucky. This, of course, does not even mention the millions upon millions of people who would never throw their hat in the ring, no matter what the situation! They would feel ill-used if forced to serve, and serve in all the same risky capacities the rest of us are sure to find ourselves when hostilities break, and downright abused if they were given the choice to serve or relinquish their citizenship, homes, and wealth earned under the blanket of freedom we service members provide.
On the flip-side, the military doesn't always want to keep some who have served. If they show signs of little worth, why should we keep them any longer than we must? And even you should admit there are a LOT of people in uniform who provide as little value as possible the entire time they're in. I say bring back the draft and get rid of all of those asinine deferments for college unless the student agrees to accept a commission based on the needs of the Army once they graduate, and for a term longer than four years!!!!!! Heck, why even afford them that luxury? The Army has education benefits, so let them continue their education while they serve? If we institute this policy we can reduce the size of our recruiting force and their subsequent locations to fit remaining requirements, which should be minimal with the draft in place.
Hey wait! What am I thinking? The upper-class is never going to allow this to happen! That kind of entitlement will NEVER cease to exist!!! But that, like your post, is a completely different topic than was started here.
Then don't sign a contract for 4,5, or 6 years. You're the one that signed your name on the contract. It's not like the military was hiding the contract years from you. You knew it was for a specific number of years and you signed the paper. Stop whinning! You made a committment, do your time then get out, and don't whine about "oh the military won't let me out a year early"
Cut Welfare and get the lazy people off their butts that are sponging off the rest of us. It really pisses me off to see people misuse this. it a hand up, not a hand out! I don't appreciate supporting people that won't get out and help themselves.
I wouldn't get rid of welfare, that's the only proof that they take care of the lower class. My mother was on welfare raising two girls by herself. She couldn't find a job at the time, so she had to use welfare for a while. So I wouldn't knock people on welfare. If the government supplied more jobs, then maybe there wouldn't be so much people utilizing it. But, there are lazy people who do take advantage of the system and become lazy. Those are the people that don't deserve it.
Curtis, please, have you ever taken a look at what a person receives on public assistance? Respectfully, take a look at the corporate walfare that gets handed out and compare. Additionally, take a look at the government contractors, their ripping off the American tax payers: where's their patriotism? Anyone can play the buly, anyone. But very few can stand against the mighty-fearlessly.
I am replying as a guest, but the mis-use of the welfare program has gone on ever since it started. I do not know how it is now, but when my wife and i first got married i honestly applied to get welfare, was denied because i had a regular government job. at that time it was not much but it would have made some of the dinners a little less adventiours if you understand. Until someone really gets control of the program, it is going to just get worse.
Rod Jerls
How about we cut all of the funding going towards immigrants that decide to move to our country? So many of them work under the table and get out of paying any taxes, then if they have children here their children are considered Americans and given government aid and assistance and even better college aid. But the goverment's first idea is to cut our American Soldiers TA? What sense does that make?
Do not cut welfare! Drug test , it will cut itself!
I cannot believe this idea is even being entertained if it is! These soldiers deserve to get what they were promised when they enlisted. They enlisted….they were not drafted like many were during the Vietnam era. That’s the difference 1% is carrying the load for the population in this country. It has saved young men from the draft. Show some appreciation for some who have been deployed 2, 3 and 4 times.
I am from the Vietnam era and remember very well the mind set of most males during that time. I now have a son that has just completed a years service and is in Iraq currently. I am proud that he stepped forward to serve this country. I want him to get his educational benefits. I will weep for him if he does not. Simply because I am furious that some get their education first and then serve. Why not do this for everyone?? Some people are treated like throw aways in this society.
As for the amount of money you were paid during the Vietnam era…..its all relative. We were all paid less at that time…..cost of living. I am 61 so I get to speak my piece…….I’ve earned the right.:)
Here's an idea. Only make TA available to 2nd termers or E-5 and above.
Interesting idea. I'm sure many will find fault with it, but it does make sense to educate the force that actually might stick around further into their career.
You two ARE smart (in a world filled with drooling monkeys).
I am a 2nd term E-5, I got a Master's degree as an E-4 in my first term. People will stick around based on their willingness to serve their country, job satisfaction, family life, deployment schedules, and a ton of other factors. Let the DoD rethink its contracting operations first and force its units to eliminate overspending for fear of reduced budgets the following FY before they touch TA.
That is interesting. First termers that complete their contract under honorable conditions will still have the Post 9/11 GI bill, but reserve TA for second termers….interesting and responsible. Oh, what are we thinking; that kind of reasoning doesn't go far in government.
I seriously doubt any first-termers contemplating reenlistment will do so or not based upon the principles involved in this argument. If education was such a deal-breaker, giving them an education without any further commitment through the GI Bill is not the way to build appropriate incentive to further serve your country! This is kind of a "give us between two and six more years of your life or we'll give you your education anyway, and without any further investment on your part"!!! I fear a career in negotiation is not in your immediate future, C3PO, but I sure would have LOVED to have you as the negotiator of my own Army contract! I'd own you right now should I have wished, were that the case.
Are you one of those who fail to take advantage of educational benefits and now jealously attack the young servicemember who rightfully is preparing for a better future? Blame yourself then and not the institution
I agree with "prior Servoce"… I am an e-3 and i FULLY use all the opportunites given to me by the army, as well as appreciate them… gi bill, tuition assistance, etc. Does it mean I don't love my country? No. I'm using it to further my career and my life. You need to think about what you say before you say it.
This use to be how it was. When I joined the Marines TA paid only 50%. If you were a Sgt however, it paid 80%. Back then I made around $350.00 every two weeks so I did not go to school. It was not until I was a Sgt did I start.(Frankly, I was not ready when I was a LCpl).
What about the people who join for school, yet they enter a rate (navy) that is over man? Because of this they can't make E5 in ample amount of time?
In the Army e-4's need civilian Ed for promotion.
Thats crazy that you would even say that. You had options when you signed up to join the military. If you choose a MOS such as infantry or one thats on the fron line then that you choce. I for one joined to get an education and theirs nothing wrong with that. I did two deployments and a deployment to Iraq three years ago. Every single MOS has hard working soldiers, sailors, airmen who have put in their time. Last but not least no one stays deployed forever….whenever you get back to the States use your TA. It's totally up to you. I put in 12hr shifts on base 5 days a week in and out of meeting with higher ups but when I get off I hit my books….on top of studing for advancement so whatch it when you post comments like that because you never know whos reading it.
Thank you! I'm sick and tired of hearing people complain about not being able to use their TA assistance so whatever, take it away. It's not our fault that you chose an MOS that deploys all the time. Infantry, MP, and Truck Driver doesn't mean you are going to be sitting at a desk and will be working a 9-5 job. If you thought that when you joined, you probably should have joined. Even if you wanted the infantry job, you obviously didn't join for the education benefit, so you shouldn't sit there and downgrade a support MOS. I sat there at BNCOC listening to the infantry grunts making fun of me because I was an intel desk jockey. Who's laughing now with an awesome job and education the military helped her to get? Thank you very much. Stop trying to take benefits away from any service member because we all signed a contract entitling us to these things. It should be against the law to take any benefits away from any service member, regardless of the reason they joined. Let's all become one and stop separating ourselves from each other. We are all fighting the same war and should be fighting the government for raping our education benefits away.
Of all the places that are in obvious need of auditing, the service member benefits? Seriously?
Hey Obama, skip one of your vacations this year… there you go, 100 more soldiers can complete another semester.
At the very least, if these cuts do go into effect, grand-father clause those that signed the line before the effect date.
Hey Johnnie, how bout writing your state senator and congressmen and say: how bout taking a pay cut in salary, curtailing your vacation time- especially since you can't manage to get things done; and, by the by, how bout halting the saliva being dropped on the o'roast a rue of lobbyists? Please, keep it real!!!
yeah just blame obama. You definitly need TA so you can get educted.
educated
Johnathan, I see both sides, (Jmitchell) but I think you should look into Mrs. Obama. Her vacations are really EXPENSIVE…and how many has she taken yearly?
I know this is a forum for people to say what they feel, about what ever is the issue of the moment but facts are important so here are some – Presidential vacation days 1st year as president:
Obama 26
G.W.Bush 40 (9/11 put a damper on his first year)
Clinton 21
G.Bush 69
Regan 42
Carter 19
As a military member you get 30 days a year. Only the Democrat Commanders in Chief lead by example here. The rest "went into the hole". (as they say when you take more leave than you have on the books)
Does anyone see a pattern here?
I surely see the pattern. But I’m shocked! I thought G.W. Bush was on vacation far more than 40 days his first year. I guess it just seemed that way.
My own daughter is a teacher in Arizona. Not a UNION teacher, but a teacher in a charter school NOT funded by the US government. Want to know how much she pays for insurance? 100%! Because the government can't tell her school HOW to teach (and they do a bang-up job too!) the teachers there have NO health care from work WHATSOEVER.
You military are going to get hit next! WE (and I mean ME TOO) were promised Tricare. Period. I was in the PILOT program for Tricare and I can tell you it's full of abuses, lies, overpayments, non-payments for months to outside doctors, lies from doctors themselves who understand little to no English when treating their military and dependent patients in our sadly understaffed and badly lacking in updating (military wide, there are bright spots even in a blizzard….).
How DARE the US Government lie to us AGAIN!!!
You PROMISED health care to us and now you are going to raise the price of it to $4000 or more a year mandatory…. when???
You need to EDUCATE EVERY SINGLE VETERAN WITHOUT A DEADLINE TO WHEN THEY CAN USE IT!
The gentleman above was so correct to see that this is SERIOUS class warfare! How DARE you say you will give us an education when you take our husbands and children in high school and then don't EDUCATE them not only in the college-sense but in the HONOR sense! We need those who will stand for right and even be ABLE to refuse an unlawful order!
How DARE you ignore the rising IED deaths (up 500% in less than four years!!!) and send more and more of our guys over there without the proper equipment they need to fight a war! My FRIENDS are dying (latest one last month) over there and every single one of you in Washington should be seriously ashamed to see how many are dying from a thing we CAN stop from happening!!!!
Oh you in Washington who will not see that one human life is worth a trillion dollars and more… it's not about money any longer, it's about personal responsibility for every single person in this country. You pay thousands of dollars for contracts for doctors who misdiagnose a patient and then ignore it when there is a complaint!
Or a "Washington Redskins" doctor (Tricare listed) who brags about his prowess in the operating room only to then have his patient have to go to yet another doctor to fix what THAT doctor caused – internal bleeding of the knee! ; but the kind NAVY doctor the year before used the PROPER equipment and didn't mess up the other knee NO wouldn't want HIM to do the OTHER KNEE!!!!! Oh THANK YOU Tricare for protecting the patient! GET THE CONTRACTORS OUT OF THE MILITARY HEALTH SYSTEM!!!
Or how's this one, the ignored trojan on the RED (secret) computer on a military base that I've told to about seven different officials and tried to find a whistleblower lawyer to NO avail!
The MILITARY SYSTEM has become a trash can for the "almost good" doctors and other contract professionals. NOT all contractors are bad but so many are that it's time to clean house and put the military family back together again WITHOUT them!
Military doctors should have an obligation to have ALL of their education paid for. They should have to go through the same psych eval that FBI or MI go through – we have TRASHED our military by civlianizing it. Give us our military BACK!!! ALL OF IT.
VETERANS should by intelligence and logic be allowed to use the shopping systems as well as the commissaries… this is RIDICULOUS! You cut us off from the ONLY PEOPLE we KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank goodness for another clear and carefully thought-out post! I must applaud you most for remaining on topic. Thanks so much for your inspiring rant. Come back soon to further enlighten us.
For those who misinterpreted the statements above as my sincere opinion I offer the following disclaimer: I wasn't. I was being wholly and completely sarcastic to make my own point.
I'd just like to see the OMB show us how much is being spent on those recruiting contracts for the buildings…. all of them… Isn't it public record somewhere?
I am tired of getting news of friend's deaths!!! We need more protection for our guys, not budget cuts…
Brilliant idea. Do not wait for anyone with some clout. Make yourself heard by contacting all recruiters office outlets nation wide and submit a joint-memo to Pentagon
You want to cut budgets, how about starting with the overpaid congressional and senatorial paid members that vote to make decisions that do not effect them because they sit outside the ball parks on educational benefits and the military, on civilian health care. You know how much money could be saved cutting the salaries of over 400 members of congress???
Do you have any idea who would become a senator or representative without the pay? And if they would, are you sure we wouldn't be getting that for which we had paid? I'll take the job for half price, but I think it would only prove my last point and I'm neither stupid, lazy, unscrupulous or lack patriotism in aces. One honest poor guy isn't going to make a dent.
I don't like the majority of the stock we get to vote on, but I don't think cutting congressional salaries will fix that problem. Salaries are only but one of MANY outrageously inflated benefits that line politician's pockets! Most of them could do without any pay or official benefits and do quite well on their other unreported means of support, certainly better than I'm doing anyway! Get a grip! 99.9% of those cats have way too much money to even notice the congressional salary before or after they announce their candidacy.
I apologize for getting off subject, but someone mentioned class and the discrepancies that exist between them in our country before in this thread. Is there anyone out there who thinks anyone who runs, let alone gets elected, comes from any other class but those in the very highest income brackets in the first place?!?! It's one of the requirements in "the rich get richer while the poor go the other direction" theory, which happens to be very much alive and thriving in America. They were wealthy before they decided to run, while they ran, and after they left "public service". What makes you think ANY of them know or care about the strife of the poor in this country; I mean REALLY CARE, of course! My experience for the most part teaches me to be very, very suspicious of such nonsense. They'll take care of themselves and their own kind at our expense until we find a way to keep them from doing so and most of us would do the same, unfortunately, if we were truly honest. Very few are actually interested in the good of "the people", and we sure aren't going to find many from the only choices that keep presenting themselves. It takes a ton of money to run for significant office in this country, so don't look for many po' boys in the lineup!!!!! Until we can figure out a way to turn that around, the poor have even less chance of ever pulling ourselves up by our own bootstraps. They've fleeced us to the point we can't even afford bootstraps anymore!
Only problem with cutting welfare and local assistance programs is many veterans rely on those programs as well (depending on the area) because their pay from military duty isn't enough to cover cost of living. If someone's gotta take the cut, how about the congressional leadership of this country.
In conclusion, if all the above comments turn to policy implimentations it could save billions already. Not to count the mountains of intangible benefits spilling to propel nations well being.
Leave the military alone. start cutting the budget in Congress and the Senate, then start on those who use welfare, medicaid, and food stamps that do not belong in the counrty that you all have defended!
Norma,
I couldn't have said it better. You get these Congressman and Senators who serve 4 yrs and destroy the country and then they get a huge pension the rest of their lives. Someone who serves in the military for 20 yrs protecting them hardly get anything these days.
leave the military benefits alone. if the government wants to trim the fat then start with welfare, medicad, food stamps, etc. the vets have EARNED their right to help. The leaches collecting their welfare check every month havent dont anything except be worthless.
Some Vets are on welfare, use medicaid and food stamps. Are you going to cut those items for them too?
well here is one for you….I have gone back to college and have taken some CEU courses too. Tried to run my own business had to close it, worked on my resume and have been out since 2005 and have had no real 'bites' on my resume yet, I struggle to find a job that can feed, cloth, and pay my cheap morgage. I do temp jobs as I find them, due to this I had to apply for food stamps to just make ends meet. I do hate those not trying to improve themselves but some of of us are trying our hardest and still go to bed in tears of frustration and I realize that I now know what my father goes through when he says that vets are greatly ignored and left unassisted, forgotten, and poorly treated. Any one in Northern VA know of any good resume assistant places? I am willing to pay to have mine worked on again if that is what it takes. I was a 92G in the US Army(Food Service Specialist)
The republican party never stop talking about how much they supported the troops back in 2003 when they were gung ho to invade Iraq. If we had stuck with Afghanistan back then we would have probably brought those responsible for 9/11 to justice. One way or the other, if we had spent the money in Afghanistan that ended up being diverted to Iraq we would have been done there by now. Of course that would have left Obama with no place to prove that he's as big a tough guy as GW Bush.
We let the bad guys get away for what? So Halliburton and Bechtel could make a few billion? Now the real price is finally here to pay. The same troops who had to do the dirty work are now being stiffed for their education benefits. Toss in all the talk about cutting Social Security and who gets hurt the most by that. What's left of the WWII vets and Korean War Vets. They're the age groups that depend on Social Security and Medicare to get by. Like today's troops, they earned it and now they're going to be stiffed for what they earned.
If we're so damned broke, why did the republican party just spend months fighting to get tax cuts that benefit the richest 2 percent of America? The spineless democrats went right along with that waste of money and now here we are. Active duty and veterans along with the old aged and sick are being asked to go on a cat food diet to pay for all this garbage. Tell me again why the richest people in America needed a big tax cut when the price for that cut was cutting TA benefits? People who live better than most of us will ever dream of living being given more while our troops are asked to give up the education that would let them provide a better life for their own families.
Damn the republicans for their support for the wealthy at the expense of the rest of us. Damn the democrats for not having the backbones to stand up and say no to this BS.
Meanwhile, does anybody think that the kids of our congressmen and Senators wont be going to the best colleges money can buy? Does anybody think that their kids will be asked to sacrifice anything? The best of our country's young are the less than 1 percent that serve in our military. We all should be on the phone tomorrow first thing telling our elected officials that either they find some way to give active duty and vets the education they've earned or come 2012 we send them a pink slip.
Fred – Your comments about Afghanistan and Iraq not withstanding… I don't know of a single person collecting a welfare check who ever created a job for anyone. On the contrary, the "richest 2 percent" as you call them are the ones who create jobs! The top 1% of all wage earners in this country pay almost 40% of all the federal taxes! How many jobs do you think they can create if you keep bleeding them dry? I know… If a multi-billionaire makes 1 less billion this year, I'm not going to cry for him/her either. But that 1 billion would create a lot of jobs if that billionaire was allowed to keep it!
Contrary to Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, there's no such thing as trickle "UP" economics.
What a great idea. Cut my education while we watch Obama spend $53 Billion on a high speed rail system, over 2 Trillion on a healthcare plan that will never work, $10.3 Trillion for welfare, $823,000 to teach South African men how to wash their genitals after sex, and the list goes on.. I have an aunt with 3 kids, that has been on welfare for at least 15 years. She has a son that is married with 3 kids now. He has no job. Welfare pays for that whole stupid side of the family while they are perfectly capable of working, but they feel that they dont have to bacause they are getting free money. What ever happened to natural selection? I understand disabled people need help, but if your too lazy to make a living, you should be cut off welfare, and forced to either work or die of starvation.
I am in Afghanistan right now. We have a company that is contracted through DoD that pays their mechanics $180,000 a year to be here. I will do good to make 35,000 while deployed. but no, your right. Our money problem is from giving the military an education. I joined knowing an education was available to me. Thats part of the reason I joined. The Government shouldn’t be able to lure you in with something and then only give you half of what they promised. That makes you a liar.
I am losing hope in my country and the government is to blame
Kyle I had to help my son fight all the way to Washington to get the so due enlistment bonus they promised him for the Army College Fund (which I understand no longer is in exsitance) He is gettinghis GI Bill and the bonus money promised from the Army College Fund but it took our local congressmen's office, forms sent to the military correction board of records and a paper hearing, and a careing person in the St Louis office to assist. My son was so frustrated he wanted to give up. He also joined for the education benefit. This entire process took over one year to resolve. No Veteran should of had to go tru this nite mare. I did most of the paperwork and phone calls so he could concentrate on school. My son even had the paper signed and in writting and they still tried to get out of paying what was due him.
If the government wants to save money, how about they start with their paychecks. Do they really need $100,000 or more just to make decisions???? Lets look at something else, instead of cutting T.A. assistance, why can't they stop buying Aircrafts????
The one thing that pisses me off the most, is that they will make budget cuts, but we would never know where that "cut" money will go. What would it be used for? oh wait I know….their pockets.
Who is making these god **** decisions!?
All these cuts in benefits and I haven't seen one mention of cutting incentive pay for flyers. If retension is so high then why is the DoD still shelling out millions in flight bonuses to our aviators? If I understand the purpose…it was to retain people due to the lucrative opportunites in the civilian sector.
News flash…the airlines are not hiring! So why are we holding on to an archaic retension program while looking at cutting education benefits for our enlisted corps? Some things I'll never understand!!!
WHAT'S TO UNDERSTAND. POLITICIANS LINING THEIR POCKETS AT OUR EXPENSE. HELLO.
WELL TO PUT IT MILDLY THE HOLD THING ON MILITARY EDUCATION SUCKS.
I WAS IN A POSITION AFTER I GOT OUT (AND I WAS A VOLUNTARY) THAT I WAS NOT ABLE TO ATTEND COLLEGE, SO AS A RESULT MINE RAN OUT AND NOW I ONLY HAVE A GED.
NOW AT 63 I AM STILL DOING THE WORK THAT 20 YEAR OLDS SHOULD BE DOING AND THEY ARE GETTING ALL THE BENES.
WHAT JUST HAPPENED HERE.
I THINK THAT ALL ELIGABLE ACTIVE AND VETS SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE
ALL THEIR BENES UNTIL DEATH DO THEY PART.
HOWEVER I AM NOT GRIPING SO ALL OF YOU OUT THERE ABLE TO DO SO NEED TO HELP TO FIX THE BROKEN SYSTEM FOR THOSE COMING ALONG BEFORE IT IS TO LATE.
AND THOSE WON'T NEED TO BE SILENT ABOUT IT.
THE MILITARY IS NEEDED SO TREAT THEM RIGHT AND GET RID OF THE PROGRAMS FOR THE ONES WHO ARE TOO LAZY TO WORK AND GET ALL THE BENES AND MAKE MORE THAN I DO WITH EARNING IT.
ALL MILITARY (ESPECIALY THE VETS) GO FOR THE GUSTO AND GET ALL THAT YOU CAN WHILE YOU CAN BECAUSE IT WILL BE GONE SOON.
SEE YOU ACROSS THE RIVER.
BY THE WAY I HAD TO TAKE CARE OF MY MOTHER WHILE MY FATHER WORKED TO SUPPORT US ALL UNTILL SHE PASSED AWAY AND THERE WAS NO ONLINE COLLEGE IN THE 70'S SO ALL YOU WHO CAN
TRY TO HELP THOSE WHO ARE NEW COMERS TO THE SYSTEM SINCE IT TOO LATE FOR ME BECAUSE I CAN'T EVEN GET A GRANT TO GET MY CERTIFICATION IN MY FIELD.
CORRECTION: WITHOUT ERARNING IT
I think the education benefits should be left a lone. What a lot of people are failing to realize is that technology is getting more advanced and we will need the educated people in the future to sustain our forces. Think of how far we've come in the last 10 years. In the next 10 years we will be working with even more advanced equipment. College is a way of building that most important muscle being your brain. The more you have to use your brain the better you can retain information.
Wait… Here's another thought. What if we cancel just 1 new stealth fighter or bomber and funnel that cost savings to our veterans? That will not make our country any less safe, but it sure will educate a lot more vets!
I joined for the benefits and a opportunity to better myself..If the whole reason I joined is taken away from me, then why the **** should I be forced to stay in? Dont promise me somthing in writing, then have some overpaid idiots in congress decide that Im not worth of it. Do away with food stamps and welfare, problem solved.
It really makes me made that the country that I served for over 28years wants to through me under a bus just to save a buck. If they need to cut the budget they really need to look at there own pockets. I bet they are making over $150,000 a year to sit on there ass and take our benifits away. How is this going to effect us that have already started a program is it going to cost me pulling out because i can't finish paying for my Degree? Is this the way our governments repays its troops for defending them?????????whats
Sir,
You have just hit the nail on the head, taking our education money away is not the best at this time because the best legacy one can ever get is education, if anyone out there thinks it is expensive then I do strongly advise them to try ignorance.
And missed the nail with a sludge hammer. Your ignorance is showing, us your GI bill! Not my tax money. I would rather give all the TA money to DOE to fund our schools than to someone in the service who has the GI Bill, and oh, now these people can transfer the benefits to their children. You got, you must be a Democrat
Isn't the GI Bill tax money too? Not sure who is smarter than who after all.
Education benefits is one of the main attractions used to recruit members into the service. OK then go ahead and cut benefits to the very people who defend the constitution against all enemies…at home and abroad. Falling numbers will soon reflect on Congress' short-sighted decisions.
What have those patriotic servicemen and women done to recieve this "academic slap in the face?" and are they trying to create a group of less educated patriots? The leaders of our country ( post-Clinton that is) are ones responsible for our economic demise. So start with their salaries, perks and benefits and cut out tyhe extravagant and self-gratifying "pork" they hav efor years attached to the budget and various appropriations
The American Public would be shocked at how many millions – yes millions of dollars are allocated to a single Army Brigade during a FY. (Hint – it's 8 digits) I was stunned myself the first time I saw the real numbers. Unfortunately, as someone earlier pointed out, units will waste ammo simply to avoid turning it in or out of fear of losing that allocation next time around.
Whats up with all the people that oboma hired to work in the White House? What are they even doing? All I know is there are still alot of people that bleed loyalty for this country and if something does not change its going to get ugly…. I want my country back, AMERICA!
obama says we are impatient, hey smart ass, it's been how many years. Now is the true "time for change". chump! way to represent the minority, hope you all are happy with what he has really done. Spend a crap load of money.
Really thought there would be a change with obama and it has gotten worse for the military..about if we let them live off our paychecks and see how long they survive..people join for benefits of what the military can offer such as education…congress forgets who protects them and who fought for there freedom… they surely dont have the ambition to protect our country…with cutbacks people will retire or not list..who will protect us then?
I'm supposed to get accepted to an NROTC scholarship from the USMC. So what does this mean for me?
My husband is an E-7 with 14 years in. He just finished his BS degree using TA, and during that time they stopped paying for books (he paid $300 one quarter for books!) He wants to get his Masters but also not throw away his years in service, so why would he get out now? Already they only pay for a portion of graduate tuition that so he will use his GI bill for some of it, money that he wanted to use for our kids since he's going to do the 20 years. Does anyone know if the Army pays full TA for officers to get their Masters? (Which they need to make rank as well.) The Army has been HARD on our family with the depolyments and the issues that result. They deserve this benefit!! There are other ways to cut money.
Has your husband looked into the Yellow Ribbon program? It covers what TA doesn’t up to a max amount. I don’t mind paying for my books because I can turn around and resell them on eBay. Tell your husband to stay in andget his Masters.
Tui doesnt require books and has a great military discount. My husband is getting hid masters now you might want to kook into that.
If your husband truly want to continue his education and get a master degree on the TA dime. Tell him to look into Excelsior college, Webster college, and California Coast University are some colleges that will lower the tuition for service member, so the member don't have to dip into the GI bill. Hope this help.
Trim welfare and let the senators and congress take pay cuts, we were promised these benifits for the job we have done and now you want to take it all back? Time to start getting out letters and on the news like everyone else, but the vet deserves what he was promised!
Went to Iraq, did not think I would have to start fighting my own government to keep what was promised me!
Right on my brotha. I recruited for the Navy and retired in May 2010. We should look at buying instead of renting. Good call.
You are wrong! Cost is more to buy than rent. Besides it against the law to buy office space etc. Your congressmen did that
It's sad to live in a country that has decided that it is more affordable to pay for a murderer or rapist in prison to get a college education and healthcare than for an active duty sevicemember, retiree, or veteran (who has faithfully served their country). Why is it that everyone speaks to trimming Medicare, Social Security, and Veteran's benifits (for the people who have worked for and earned them) but never addresses cutting welfare, medicaid, or foodstamps for the people who are totally capable of supporting themselves but choose not to. I also agree with tami and William Clark if the budget is so bad that we need to once again cut veteran's benifits then perhaps a better served initative would be to cut the salaries for the over 400 members of congress and their ever growing staffs (or at least not give them another substantial payraise which the neither deserve nor require, until they find a way to balance the budget).
I totally agree with you, why should our inmates deserve the luxuries of education. They are already living for free. And why not cut congress’s paychecks. Our Veterans are the reason we are able to enjoy our freedom, because they fought for this country. It wouldnt be fair to cut their benifits. Social “Security”, leave it alone, those folks put in there time and contributed to our future. enough said!
I am all for using the National Guard facilities for recruitment! I think that is a great Idea!!!
How about this…..Bring our troops home and let Iraq and Afghanistan fight there own fricken war. There’s billions of dollars right there. Maybe this…..The military should declair bankruptcy do we can be bailed out like a GM. This country needs to get its priorities right.
I like your plan.
This country needs an enema.
Joining the military is a choice, and many people joined for the entitlements that they offered. And they should receive what they were promised. I was on board a submarine and I couldn't take classes like my Air Force counterpart, but I am not complaining. Yet I do deserve what I was promised. Like my fellow servicemen stated, stop paying costs for things that should be almost free, why pay high costs of rental property? Remember the slogan, if you build, they will come? Now on the right way to save money from the budget. Stop spending so much money on prisons for criminals, lets outsource it to Mexico. That way it would almost even out. They get our criminals (we get theirs already), and we save billions from having to house them. We already spend more on prisoners than our own children.
I agree with you Tony. My son served in Iraq and my husband is from the Vietnam generation. It's such a shame history is repeating itself. I pray each day for our troops to come home. Our son is in school on the GI bill and should graduate soon but another problem so many are unemployed. Where are the jobs? So much unrest for the younger generation ahead. Our government has its hands in too many pies. It is scary that Vets will be coming home to no jobs just like many in the Vietnam generation. We are now the parents behind all the Iraq and Afghanistan heros. God bless.
Not for long. In the Fall, in order to get the full BAH you will have to take at least 4 classes and no one in their right mind can work full time and take 4 classes. So it's either don't get the BAH you were promised in the beginning and work full time in order to pay the bills, or quit your job and try to live off the BAH the GI bill provides… good luck. Soon, we won't even get education benefits that we signed up for. If they keep cutting the budget for veterans and active duty, anything is up for grabs. Start cutting the costs to other things like retarded government programs that aren't being used, and leave the military alone!
I managed to work and go to school full time (with 5 classes, not 4 per semester) with two little kids at home. Budget your time wisely and you can get it done. Or work part time.
it's honestly not that hard
Well Shaun you make a valid point about buying the land and buildings for the recruiting stations all over, however, they can't do that. the Federal government cannot purchase, to operate, buildings in states any longer… the land can only be leased from the state and built upon or the building leased from an agent or owner as you would lease a house. As for 3000 to rent the office in a strip mall a month that can be good or bad… I recruited in St, Charles Mo and we moved the office to St. Peters into a nice strip mall. it was newer and all four services were in the same section of the mall building one entrance door, one main hall, four doors off that hall, a kitchen, testing room, and bathroom. This was in 1990 that we moved to that new office and they are still there all together, it works great. The bill for this was $5200.00 a month but it included all heating and AC, water, sewer, trash, strip mall center lighting fee, security fee, all we paid separately was electrical outlets and phone … that was a DEAL. It was around 2400 sq ft. that is like only $26.00 a sq ft a year …. anyone who has ever been in business will tell you for retail space especially NEW retail space this is very good.
Trust me, it would of cost more to buy, maintain and renovate than the $3k in rent over a 20 year life. You don't know what your talking about because you didn't do your home work. So if would of spent the TA to go to school, maybe you would be able to do the math and think before running your mouth. Everyone has to take cuts, how deep depends. However you still have your GI bill that will help to educate you. TA is just another form to waste! My father didn't get money to go to school, and I did not use TA while on active myself, I had the GI Bill or I paid for my classes out of pocket just like those tax payers are doing. Take and put the money someplace that it can do some good for ALL.
Now you have hit that nail on the head and drove through the skull of those that think it is bad to lose TA. Let it go away! It is not something that is promised as a recruitment! If it is the recuriter screwed up.
Here's an idea… Clamp down on illegal immigration. That alone will save untold millions in healthcare, law enforcement, schools that illegal attend at our expense. Then get rid of the freebies at community colleges for inmates on parole (federal funding) And clamp down on welfare. Why just last year several welfare reciepiants were caught up here in a drug bust, They owned a porche, and a lincoln mark 5. How no one notices 60'000 dollar cars parked at subsidized housing is beyond me. Also, how is it that everyone on state aid has a cell phone and cable?? Are these the necesaties we must pay for? Theres plenty of room for cuts. Just cut where it wont hurt the country. Obviously these cuts wont hurt us at all.
I Guess theres plenty of money for AIG, General motors, and all these craphole countries that we pay foreign aid too. And plenty of dough for the sanctuary cities across the liberal lands. But the drop in the bucket TA for military… spending too much???? Go sell stupid somewhere else, we are all stocked up here.
I don't get this and maybe someone can elaborate it to me. They used $542 million in TA. Each branch gives $4500 per year per person. That means only 120,444 active duty people (which could involve Guard and Reserves that are activated) are using it, out of 1,426,713 (not to include the 1,259,000 guard or reserves) people? If they couldn't support even half of the amount of people in the military with this program, why did they dangle it in front of us? I'm within 7 classes of getting my B.S. and they better not cut it now!
As someone who has worked in an Army Education Center off and on since 2004, the thought of budget cuts in the form of TA reductions sickens me. I do not see why, if the government is so concerned with reducing the overall budget for the military, the government will not allow the military and civilians do jobs that are turned over to contractors. I do not know for sure about other military contracts, but I know from my experience as a contractor, the government is getting ripped off, in my opinion, from the current education contract.
Also, I do not know if it is civilians or contractors that are hired to be gate guards, but why on earth can't the military personnel do this job? I grew up around military and it has always been military personnel checking my IDs. How does 9/11/01 change the effectiveness of this past practice? The gate guard issue is just one of many scenarios I do not understand about military spending/ logic. The military branches should be able to work together to reduce spending, rather than some politician who knows little to nothing about the military, due to lack of personal exposure, who then arbitrarily decides to cut programs such as TA expenditures. I find this highly ridiculous.
There are many areas of cross-over. The "Defense Centers of Excellence" established some 3 years ago is an example of such waste. Rather than partnering with established agencies that have studied to the nth degree such things as suicide, depression, TBI etc., the government stands up another department to spend money on studies, office supplies, people standing at the water coolers and developing printed materials that speak to each branch of service (pictures are changed and the reference to Army, Marine Corps, Navy, or Air Force filed in). Rather than partnering with community organizations to assist in deployment and reintegration, the government mandates millions of dollars be spent on programs such as Yellow Ribbon Reintegration…it just goes on and on all the wasteful DoD spending. But they will always target the tiny pots of money such as TA because they know these poor kids will stay active duty because they've created an economy that makes it nearly impossible for getting out due to the loss of one relatively small benefit. Government will not turn on their own pet-programs such as Yellow Ribbon since they have those to say, "We stood up this program and see what we are doing to prevent reintegration issues!" Nothing has changed – there will always be the big bosses making decisions that make no sense to the people living with the decisions.
I'm a Vietnam vet that wishes he could re-enlist just for a pay check.After I got out of the army I went to college, into construction and was able to work 12 hrs a day 7 days aweek and make money.Because of wall street, the government and it's cronies ; now I wish I could find anything.You could always cut the governments excess pay, bonuses and benefits and the budget would probably be balanced.Regardless ; people wanted an all volunteer military so they would not have to serve, so pay what was promised and what the soldiers desserve. If not you could always switch places.
Education support is a sacred area and should be left alone.
Sounds like the owner did well with making $2,160,000.
We need a rant site. This is for everybody here, have you talked to your congressman about this yet?……no?…..I didn't think so. You're not going to get much done here by ranting, you are the one that keep voting these people into office, so in essence, you are part the problem. If you voted for the tea baggers and the repubs, you should have saw this coming.
Well, mabe you didn't see this coming, you being blinded by lies and all. Think for yourselves people.
Even the well-intentioned, fresh voices in public office become part of the political machine. When I post in response to stories such as this, it is with hope that in addition to the letters and phone calls to the elected officials, there are watchdogs in those offices scanning these "voices of the people" as well.
YOU MEAN OUR HIGHLY PAID CONGRESS MEN AND WOMEN?? YOU MUST NOT SEE THAT IT WOULD NOT CHANGE MUCH SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY WILL NEVER APROVE BUDGET CUTS FOR THEMSELVES, ALL THE BUDGET ISSUE WILL BE SOLVED IS WE ELECT ONE DECENT CONGRESS PERSON, THAT WOULD CHANGE EVERYTHING WHY DIDN'T WE THINK OF THAT A LONG TIME AGO!!!!!
Good point top dog –
Cut and paste this entire blog into a letter to your elected officials and see if it makes a difference.. hope it does.
- Guest
Phathom (sic), lol!
Do not cut TA for Service Members. Cut that spouse program completely out that wasted millions that should be for the DoD members (that'd be the Service Members doing the work). There were so many women saying things like, "I was going to file divorce but for $6k, I'll stick around a little longer." Very deserving >_< I'm not sure if that new GI Bill transfer is part of the DoD budget – and even if it isn't, that needs to go away, too. If the employee doesn't want to use the benefits of their job, they lose the benefit. The GI Bill money should be transferred to another part of the budget that benefits employees – such as medical care.
If the TA is cut, it harms the Single Service Members and they are a large population doing the work in the military. They are also the lowest maintenance! No dependents to complain and overwhelm the medical system or provide schools for kids or child care programs or employment preferences…etc. etc.
IT MAY SEEM LIKE IT EFFECTED THAT SINGLE SERVICE MEMBER, THOUGH SOME DEPENTDENTS OF THESE SERVICE MEBERS DO NOT DESERVE IT THEY ARE STILL LEGALLY ATTACHED TO THAT MEMBER, AND MOST RESPONSIBLE INDIVIDUALS LIKE TO SUPPORT AND TAKE CARE OF THEIR FAMILIES, PLUS THAT MEMBER AND HIS OR HER ENTIRE FAMILY WILL BE EFFECTED MAYBE NOT BE WHAT YOU CAN SEE RIGHT OFF BUT IT SHOWS UP LATER!!! MOST PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT MEANT TO HAVE BEEN DEPLOYED, OR DO SOME THINGS THAT MOST SERVICE MEMBERS HAVE TO DO TO SERVE THEIR COUNTRY! THESE ARE USUALLY THE ONES THAT HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT WHAT BENEFIT A SERVICE MEMBER DESERVES!!!! CONGRESS IS LOOKING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION FOR BUDGET CUTS!!! "GIVE A MAN FOOD AND FEED HIM FOR A DAY, SHOW HIM HOW TO FIND FOOD AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT KEEP FEEDING HIM". MAYBE IF EDUCATION FOR SERVICE MEMBERS WERE ON THE TOP OF THE LIST TO BEGIN WITH THEY MAY NOT NEED ALL THE BENEFITS THAT NEED NOW!!!!!
I can't seem someone would post this long rant and not know how to spell the most basic words. You are an embarrassment to the Marines! This guy, Shaun Adams, is an excellent example of why the tuition should be reduced. My third grader did get a laugh out of it though.
How much is the Pentagon spending on NASCAR?
I spent 4 horrible years as an AD Army recruiter. USAREC wanted numbers only, didn't care anything about individuals or individual needs or wants including recruiters. Could be that this would probably work, but none of the services will never buy into it. Why? Because it would help everyone and makes WAYYY to much sense and save money.
How about passing a law that no federally employed governemnt worked can have a salary larger than the President. That's how it works everywhere else right? The employees make less than the boss. Unfortunately, congress are the one's who will be mostly affected and they are also the one's who would have to approve. As if they aren't wealthy enough. Leave the very few benefits we have alone!
Whatever happened to selfless service, loyalty, integrity, and honor? Most people that post on Military.com are disgruntled, ingrates. Stop assuming the government owes you something. Duty and service is my privilege and real Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and Coast guardsmen don't bitch like this. I am an Infantry 1SG with over 20 years of active service and still proudly serving OUR country.
Ok infantry 1sg with over 20 years of active service, you're going to be retiring with a nice paycheck coming in each month. TA being cut may not affect you as much as it would affect the person working on their degree while only doing a 4-5 year enlistment then going back to the civilian world.
How do you find the time to go to school on active duty in a time of war?
ITS CALLED ONLINE EDUCATION, SHIIPBOARD EDUCATION, JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE SERVING YOUR COUNTRY DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU CAN NOT MAKE TIME FOR ADVANCING YOURSELF FOR SOCIETY. THIS IS THE SAME ACCUSE MOST MILITARY MEMBERS HAVE, "I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR SCHOOL".
How about finding a state school! I go to a major university in my state and only spend $150-170 per semester hour for undergraduate. I'm using maybe half the money allotted for me per semester. You don't need Private or Ivy League schools to get a good education. Oh and make sure you go to a place that you can get the in-state rate…that makes a whole lot of difference. the schools have every right to charge what they will. We on the other hand can get a decent education without using every red cent and leave some benefits for our brothers and sisters in arms. Oh and as for TA for active service members, I used it once and that was before September 11th, really who has the time for school anymore on active duty?
Maybe we should take a lesson from Egypt and Libya. We all know that a few letters and some petitions are not going to do a dang thing. The capital hill fat cats will be getting fatter while the peons (all of us) get thinner and have to scrape to get anything. I hate to say it but maybe cutting out the spouse TA will greatly help. As for equipment issues how about we at least by a uniform that is actually durable. There are so many areas where money can be saved. The almighty dollar runs this country not the people.
Maybe Barry and Michelle could quit taking so many lucrative vacations. That would save the American taxpayers Millions of dollars..
This item is long over due – the giving of U. S citizens money to fund other countries due to their government not taking care of their citizens. STOP GIVING OUR MONEY TO SUPPORT OTHER COUNTRIES AND TAKE CARE OF OUR VETERANS, OR STOP MAKING DISABLED VETERANS, AND TAKING BENEFITS AWAY FROM VETERANS. Use these funds to support the citizens of the U. S. Congressmen and Senators for the most part have not served and have avoided sevice one way or another. Example, Scott Brown (Nat'l Guard) of Massachusets self serving by promoting his book, rather then attending to business lately. It's only a matter of time before people in this U.S. start really protesting about these self serving individuals, then all these big corporations will feel the effects on their income and balance sheet statements.
I would think the majority of people joined the military to receive educational benefits. To pull this funding is ridiculous. What the federal government needs to do, cut back on is all the money they put into welfare. The federal government should have no part in this program. If a state wants to run this program good for them, the federal government needs to stay in their lane. Take a knee drink some water and face out.
The problem with our education system, is that it is a business, and a corrupt one at that. I finished my B.S. when I retired in 2007after 21 years of active duty service. College cannot hold a candle to the life long experience, and training one receives in the military. The real problem is the cost of education vs. the work force.
Now one must get a Masters degree to be fully competitive in the civilian workforce. Our education has been devalued for the sake of institutions making more money. Although I agree, "quality" education is important; financially raping people for the sake of school's lining their coffers is nothing more than a business, not education.
As a Marine, I guarantee at a minimum, half one's career is worth more than any bachelor's degree out there. The problem with the education system, is that it will not recognize your training and education, because no money is going to those institutions. Colleges claim they will give you credit, but you still need to take all of their classes for any program.
I believe the G.I. bill is great, but as one person commented, schools just raise the prices to contend the issue. Proposed cuts, simply increases supply and demand, and competition is always good for business. Studensts are enslaved to student loans, and their is no promise they will find a job to pay off those loans. Most continue the debt by getting more education.
During my career, going to school active duty during peace time was always a double edge sword. They encouraged it, talked about it, but they really didn't want your time consumed with it. Going to the field, deployments, duty, and long hours always interfered with school.
I always believed you can benefit all, by bringing the classroom to the military. The hardest would be the basics, English, math, and science. At a minimum, those serving 4 years, would complete the basics – English, math, and possibly much more. If you can get a shake and bake degree online for 40K, then their is no reason why one cannot receive a B.S. in Military Science by the time they complete all of the advanced training schools and leadership schools.
It does not just have to be Military Science, it could be more than one to include; Leadership, Management, Training and Education – the list is endless. It's all about the money not going to these institutions, as to why you don't receive more credit for your training, education, and experience.
Those degrees earned from your time in service, leadership, promotion, and your schooling, should be more valuable than any civilian institution degrees, and recognized as such. The schools still want our money, but many thumb their nose at our education, training, experience, and true value to society.
Until the education institution is exploited for their corruption, they will have free reign to hike the prices up and charge what ever they want. We pay the price while administrator's double their salary. If you really want to examine this further, the litmus test of a college degree is "What jobs are available to college graduates, and how many of them find jobs in what they majored in?"
Semper Fi
Why is it that illegal immigrants can petition for "instate" tuition and the military is the one who has to put up money for out of state tuition? With the amount of veterans attending these universities there should be a way to make this work. It's extremely disheartening to hear that the men and women who put their lives on the line for their country just in hopes of someday attending college will be the ones that the we as a nation cannot support. How about subsidies to large corporations? How are we subsidizing products for companies that make billions per year and hire fewer and fewer workers? I would gladly pay more taxes if they took away subsidies for useless things and started supporting more civil servants (teachers, firefighters, veterans, etc.) people who really work for this country and not just provide it with cheap shit like sugar.
if you want to cut high payouts you need to start . why not cut a few generals there's your savings . don't pick on the enlisted ranks. soon you will have a bunch of high payed officers and no enlisted to do the work.
I think you should weigh your toughts before posting them… I am receiving the post 911/GI-bill and it is not as a big deal of money as they make it seems…. they subtract each and every day that is not a school day (like Christmas break or Spring break) from the BAH. Any unit is more entitled to benefits than other…… all units should be equally valued. if you take away the right of an enlisted to go to school using the (TA) you just set him for "homeless" path after service and be a liability for the government
The problem is what the universities charge and the number of students who don't belong there to begin with. In addition, they need to cut out garbage courses like ethnic studies, women's studies, etc. The cost of books and materials is ridiculous. They also need to look at the highly compensated Presidents and board members. There is a lot that can be done to reduce the cost of college and not harm the benefits.
Our military are defending our country. Why should their health care benefits and education be cut. Cut out welfare to the ones who are sucking off the system and to illegals who come over to the U.S. and have one kid after another . and just sit on their butts.
Return to the draft, when a military person completes their time in the service then they are eligible for all veterans benefits including education. Draftees would have 10 days to pick another service, if they do not, then they are Army bound. Strictly enforce military law. Tough but Fair, Men and Women are drafted equally. When a person successfully completes military service honorably then they are eligible for all veterans and education benefits.
You guys they are probably only going to cut it for graduate school. Army and Air Force only pay for masters using TA and Navy/Marines TA goes up to PHD. I'm sure they are going to keep it for bachelors.
I meant up to a masters for Army/Air Force
Wow, I never thought of that side of recruiting cost!
And the landlords of these building know Uncle Sam has deep pockets and will pay what ever increase the landlord states.
Thanks, but I doubt anyone will take up your great suggest and act on it.
Ladies and gentlemen, it was only a matter of time until they came for our benefits. The last decade has seen such an astronomical increase in defense spending, that it has proven to be unsustainable. We can't have all these weapons and all this education and all this medical and all the other freebies. Do I like it? Hell no! Do I see it as long overdue? Yes.
Mainly because the economy is doing poorly. Why keep shelling out all of these incentives if the recruits are just walking in the door?! It makes no sense. Cops, firefighters, nurses, border patrol, national park rangers and teachers don't make these benefits. And cops and firefighters are on the frontlines the moment they walk out of their door.
The national budget has to be cut. We can't pick and choose what gets cut but we can advocate for fairness across the board.
A very tough issue. I for one am very grateful for the $4,000 per year I receive and use appropriately. If it gets cut…..then o well. As someone previously posted I enlisted to fight and serve this country with the possibility of paid school as an added benefit. Yes I believe that there are FAR better and more effective ways that the budget can be cut substantially but if T.A get the ax then it was good while it lasted. I just hope the govt. don't ax FASFA as well cause then we will be SOL.
Well I'm going to get all I can before they make the cuts. This is just horrible to think about because many troops want to better them selves professionally.
Well if you really wanna talk about rent we should go ahead and add in countries where rent is paid that is pointless. Kosovo land owners received an insane amount of financial aid by the month. Israel and Egypt have been receiving financial aid for way too long. The list goes on my friends….
When attempting to find areas for budget cuts the military should focus on reconstructing its perpetual hiring of overpaid, incompetent civilian administrators, instead of its current focus on depriving once enlisted soldiers of an education that provides our economy with persons of knowledge and first hand experience of world crisis. Then again its not like these type of people are needed in the current world of middle eastern unrest. Inexperienced and unaware are the officials reviewing the budget. I move that the american public should require its budget reviewers (in this matter) to become subject to the military processing programs endured by our nations enlisted in the hopes that they might see the financial faults in this system. I hope our leaders can see what is right in front of them rather than making undeveloped decisions about my education after I put my life on the line for 6 years. A promise made should be a promise kept, and I kept mine.
I agree. During the Nam ERA, Recruiting offices were located in major Post Office Buildings. I guess someone thinks having one next door to the Sports Chalet or Mickey D's will garner more visitors.
I agree TAMI, leave the benefits alone: I served in the first GULF WAR and due to that and many empty promises I lost my wife, kids, first house and was so distraught I did not use my education benefits the first time…..Speed into the future, 9/11 and I let myself get sucked back in…served proudly once more!! Thinking this might be a fresh and NEW start for me…and WHHAAAmmm!! more empty promises POST 9/11 GI bill…what a load of cr-p. This Government needs to take care of the GI who gives up everything or looses everything to help out his country…THANKS America…your leaving me empty handed once more.
Why wouldn't DoD expect the use of TA to go up? Baker cut the more affordable testing programs. The DoD should have done the math – one 3 credit distant learning course cost about the same as ten CLEP tests.
Do not go GCU (Grand Canyon Online) online school in AZ. In addition, I am waiting for my CH 31 VA payments for tuition to them from the CH 31 program none yet since mid-last year. Also, the VA Regional office in Oakland put me 3/4 rate when I am taking 12 units per semester. I was full time rate. Just blind-sided me with the down grade rate and they change counselors all the time between Oakland and Sacramento VA office. I am always guessing with no transparency at all. Wish it was smooth but, they are not for the VETs or some I see. You can tell when they talk to you trying to hang you up.
Each service has their own TA pot. DoD sets the regulations, but any service could cut, reduce or place stipulations on how TA is used. Carolyn Baker has no say on how much any service pays out. Carolyn Baker has said the same thing at CCME every year for the past six years.
I can tell some of prior and active service members are walking with their eyes wide shut. You can blame the President (Chief of staff) all you want…it really doesn't matter. Take a closer look at your local Government those are the ones who's cleaning your clock.
As a Vietnam Vet, I did get the chance to use TA benefits when I was in the Military. It is a good affordable program, and should not be cut. If there are budget balancing acts to be made, do it on the rich, and raise taxes on the rich. They can well afford it, peon enlisted people, and lower income veterans cannot. The arguments regarding providing tax cuts for the rich so that jobs can be created is pure BS. Look at the rich bankers who receive the bonuses while their banks deny loans to starting small businesses, and other means. Don't cut educational benefits.
I am a previous 15 year Vet with all the rememberances of mangled bodies, blood and explosions, and now my own PTSD. I talk to other Vets who, like me, can't make it throuh the month on their VA benifits and SSDI payments. The sad thing is, no employer wants to hire an over 55 Disabled Vet, even with a college degree, because they are afraid of the disability causing problems.
Give me a break, we can't get work, or a raise for cost of living, or even a home lone. Lets all band together and vote Disabled Vets into office and kick those other money grubbing wimps out so we can get this country back on track.
Your on the right trach there!
In other news: The Employment and Training Administration (ETA), U.S. Department of Labor (DOL or the Department), announces the availability of approximately $240 million in funds for an H-1B Technical Skills Training Grants program.
http://www.doleta.gov/grants/pdf/SGA-DFA-PY-10-13_Final_H-1BSGA.pdf
while TA is so important to those coming straight out of highschool and joining the military, those who were already paid through with ROTC should give up their TA. With Generals and Colonels making 8k a month, why don’t we just stop TA at certain higher ranks and allow it up to a certain rank. (Say MSgt or Maj) that would take care of some spending though not all of course. why take away the only way some have any chance of making it outside of the military by taking away their education…
It seems that the best way to get an education is to get pregnant and be a single mom. Not only do they get free tuition, they also get welfare, food stamps, free housing and free medical treatment. So lets give people that make bad choices by not using birth control more money. The money the government does not spend on its Soldiers will just be redirected to welfare programs. And by the way, that single mom also gets to live in a larger dwelling than the young Sergeant serving as a paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne Division. Got to love the democrats, lets vote for more (haha).
To add to my comment. Another farce is the master's degree program that the Army sends its officers to. They go to schools like Yale, Harvard and Duke. Meanwhile, they wont let me attend under grad classes with 100% tuition at the local community college. By the way I still work a 12 hour day and must still deploy with my unit while the officer does a PCS move to Duke to just be a student and still draws his entire paycheck and does not wear a uniform for the entire time he or she is in school. Once again officers are tourists, I spent 7 years on the same ODA and had 5 different Captains as team leaders that spent maybe a year each and now they are the experts. What a joke, I am sure glad that I am retiring from the Army, now I know why I got out once.
I believe we should not allow junior enlisted to use TA. As a senior enlisted member I find letting E-3 and below use TA is a waste of the military's money. They should spend their first 4yrs learning their jobs and the in's and out's of instructions and KNOW HOW TO DO THEIR job!!! My LPO made me stay late every night to read opnavs, tech manuals and to be able to understand them and place them into practice.Now we have these men and women going to school at night instead of doing what they enlisted for, SERVING THEIR COUNTRY! I see a lot of others saying they deserve to use TA, but they haven't done anything for their county, except graduate boot camp!
Very Interesting comment! First, dumb privates make dumb NCO's!! Secondly, offering the TA is an incentive for them to stay in their respective branch of service. Recruit is down because many more youths are opting to go to college. Those that aren't probably should not go anyway. Thirdly, those that serve need to be educated to be true future effective leaders. You can teach a monkey a job, which is basically completing a set of tasks or functions based on a given set of scenarios. Having a career, is different.
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Fourth, how a soldier decides to spend his/her personal time is up to them and not you. In addition, education points are counted toward promotion points. Fifth, yes there is some on the job training required. However I dont think it needed to be as drastic as you have described. I don't know how much training you received during your initial entry into the service, maybe you did not grasp all the concepts when you were supposed to and that is why your LPO required all those late night readings. Yet, on the other I have seen some private that were very knowledgeable and competent after intial training. I guess it depends on the soldier. and Lastly, I would be careful about the "SERVING THEIR COUNTRY" comment, I don't know the details of your military career, but be careful some people may think that your service is not as valuable as theirs. Thus them recommending you not get TA!! Karma can be a pill to swallow sometimes.
To cut TA would be a dagger in the "Future" of our Armed Forces. Enlistment bonuses have faded away and now with the threat of losing out on college money, the Military in general will begin to feel the effects of our depleting economy. Having worked in an Education Office for the National Guard, I have seen the importance in Education and the benefits the general public receives from it.
Most people view a college graduate as "A person who test's well" and these are the future leaders of tomorrow's Military, private business, politician's, law makers and sometimes the next Commander in Chief. Emphasis should be placed more on education instead of a failed space program or even the fighting of conflicts on foreign soil, that cost billions of dollars to fund.
The American society needs to focus on fixing today's issues at hand such as poverty, health care and gas prices to name a few. We tend to vote for a party of which we know nothing about, as our founders of our great nation sought out the best person to represent our belief's. "United we Stand" is definately just a slogan for some marketing campaign today, instead of the roots of the tree we need to plant in society.
u are soooooo right im having panic attacks over everything these mother Fers are doing to military. i am an air force wife an was looking forward to having the little relief that military families benefits are given already at the most for our nations men to risk their lives for something that almost isnt even worth anymore is a JOKE all military is royalty in my eyes whether branch or rank and deserve more than what our own goverment is choosing to neglect makes me red hot mad about the giveth and the taketh away for useless and worthless excuses our military men and women swear their lives for our country the least our country can do is keep what is promised to them and their families without excuse!!!
i was pushing my husband to even go back to leadership school to become an officer with major officer cuts i take that back now feel for the families who are dependant on theyre husbands military carreers as officers which are the royalty in military and even they cant get a break by the goverments situtation
The military, as we know it, is being dismantled. Get out, use the Post 9/11 GI Bill and go to school. Intern & volunteer all you can while taking classes to get the experience and connections you will need when you graduate to land a job. Work your ass off and you will be rewarded.
If the governemtn would stop spending money on fancy flat screen tv's in every hall way, waiting area, or unit our governement could save millions…. My unit barely had supplies on a monthly basis let alone allowed us to take classes because we didnt have the man power to support it.,… If they cut my GI Bill I will be very pissed…thats the main reason I joined the military and served my country.
You picked your job buddy. Don't bitch about not getting to use your T.A.
While I am on my rant.. People who get free houing from the govt should be required to go through the same style inspection that our servicemembers go through in their barracks. If your " free living area" is all dicked up i.e. selling of drugs, gangs, etc….. we take away your hosuing allowance for that month. Goddamn freeloaders.
I do not expect that anyone thinks the military will be imune from cuts to the federal budget, but the present and future cost to the force that cuts to tution assistance represents are enormous. Decentralized execusion of military operations on the modern battlefield require highly inteligent and adaptive leaders at all levels, Soldier, NCO, WO, and Officer. Failure to continue to invest in the human capital of our force will prevent us from being able to execute in the manner we need to.
Brant E. Kananen
MAJ, USA
CGSC Class 11-02 Fort Lee
The views expressed are those of only the author. They do not neccessarily represent the views of theCGSC, the US Army, or the US Government.
From a DOD perspective the answer has been staring us right in the face every day: http://costofwar.com/en/
Problem solved
Well I think the issue that is important which is not being addressed is that most of the soldiers that are currently using the GI BILL have paid into the (FUND)!!! As such the discussion of budget cuts are being thrown around without proper representation! Meaning whom are we to speak with in order to verify payment to the GI FUND!!! Also, who will plead our case when budget cuts are being discussed to explain that MILITARY EDUCATION is A FUND that is paid for by each soldier! Though I still have much to learn I do not think that our voices are being heard in the proper forums!
I don't know why everyone is all bent out of shape about TA being cut, all the for-profit schools like AMU and Univ. of Phoenix will adjust the cost of their per credit hour to coincide for the cut in TA. Just relax soldiers…
Can a child use the GI Bill if the parent did not? If so, where do I start? My dad never used his TA, but paid into it/did active service time during Gulf War. I do not know if he 'paid' into it or if it is just part of being a service member. No clue, but I do know he said he had it but never used it. We do not talk much, so I cant just call him for this question. I'm just curious. What will happen to his 'funds' if he does not ever use?
how about this have congress work for the state mininum wage and see how quickly our problems and bugeting gets fixed.
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Education benefits such as the GI Bill, Tuition Assistance and various programs are a key ingredient which makes our military a quality force of America’s best and brightest young people.
Our citizens decide to join the military for a plethora of reasons. I am in the military and was fortunate enough to take advantage of our educational programs. That was not the reason I joined, however that played a major part in my continued service. My education through the military allowed me to remain competitive and even exceed some of my civilian cohorts. The reason our country is so well protected is directly impacted by the quality of our military. We need educated people who are relevant and able to adapt to today’s changing environment. We must continue our education in order to remain on the edge with emerging technologies and complex operational environments. We operate in a non-traditional environment that is dominated by the best and brightest who have adapted themselves through continued education. A complex battle field requires abstract thinking, which is developed through furthered education and has been dominated by our military.
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Furthermore, retention of our brightest people is important. We must offer opportunities that are competitive and when possible better than their civilian counter parts. We pay a high price in ordered live free and some will pay the ultimate price. Our careers will end at some point, be it less than 10 years for some or retirement at 20+ years for others. In order to retain our bright young people there must be some incentive that will prepare them to step into their civilian lives educationally ready to compete for jobs. Education benefits are a miniscule amount to pay for the sacrifices and risks we take to protect America.
In conclusion, I say that our education benefits are too important to be sacrificed for budget cuts. There must be other areas that can be considered before we begin to chip away at the foundation of our nation’s military. It is the quality that America affords its military, which enable them to protect America so well. We would be doing America a disservice by cutting back on military’s education program.
Budget cuts!! Let's start cutting back on Federal employees and all the benefits they get as civilians. Oh I'm sorry they can vote, unlike overseas military. I'm sick of politicians especially democrates. Cut the duplicate departments. Make all students pay back their student loans. Stop paying outrageous retirment benefits to politicians and union government employees. The military is the only ones that deserve the taxpayer dollar.
Just happened – Marine Corps cut their Tuition Assistance from max $4500 (250 per semester hour) down to – MAX $175 per semester hour, and MAX per fiscal year of $875. On top of that- maximum of 5 semester hours paid for during a fiscal year. Even if you found a college that only cost $100 per hour- you could only utilize it for 5 semester hours.
And so it begins- putting the budget cuts on the backs of the enlisted who are trying to educate themselves and become productive citizens to society.
I would much rather see the Thunderbirds, Blue Angels, Bands, and pointless conferences, etc cut before Tuition Assistance!
One thing I've learned serving my country, is "don't mess with the guys with the guns"
I agree that cutting tuition assistance would be a detriment to the military. A large number of Soldiers depend on the military to gain higher education. For me, Webster University gave me 12 credits towards a Masters of Art in Management after I graduated from the Captain’s Career Course. I used tuition assistance to complete my Masters and saved over $20,000. I believe earning my Masters as a young Captain gave me an advantage when seeking positions of greater responsibility. To cut tuition assistance may potentially turn highly qualified officers towards the civilian sector as there is no longer that incentive to pursue graduate level education. Instead I can see more Officers leaving the military to use their Post 9/11 education benefits to seek a Masters degree.
Soldier benefits should not be cut, however there is no reason their spouse need their education paid for. As a post said up top that they rarely have time to go to school, however we are paying for their wives to go out and get masters while they are the ones defending our countries something is wrong with that picture! It should be only their benefit!!
Im a vietnam vet using the Chpt31 voc rehab You new vest cry about money.well let me tell you us before the 9/11 have had our benifits cut ,and stop pay cut and if I take a advansed courses I dont get payed till I start that course. my creidt hours do not matter on my pay. we have had to sacrfices so you new vets get more. If your depending on the Dav or other serivces agents to help well your just (sol). Im a life long member of thev DAV I have called the legesaltive branch to inquire about this. Thye are so disrepectful they wont even call back. Word of advise they are only courting you for your membership in joining them, while they have fogotten all abot us in the past. Our service does no matter any more, we now have a two teir vets system not only form the V.A> but the service organaztions. Marine vet 73-80
education is one of the few areas where there should be no cuts.
Someone mentioned here that real troops don't use the TA system and if they want an education they should get out and use the GI bill. I have been AD AF for 18 years. I work 12 hour plus days on the flight line, have deployed several trimes, and still used my TA from my AS degree all the way up to my Master's. To say real troops don't use this is a bunch of crap. If you didn't use it you are just straight lazy. If the president can EO illegal immigrants freedom then he can EO military educational benefits. Real Talk from a AF E-7 Crew Dog